September 7th River Meeting

Present: Chris T, Harold, Caroline, Ryan, Chicken, Margery, Bill W

on phone: Mel (for trip reports), Mai



Guide applications were not discussed: not enough Steering Committee members present

Also, Harold urged the group not to conduct personnel business during River meetings with general members present.


Trip Reports


Marin NA

2-3 participant boats, 2 IKs (Caroline, participant, both swam each day)

Don't camp at Ponderosa, no campsites for tents

slept on gravel - can't sleep on recreation area

can put in there, just below Old Scary

$5 per person put-in at Coloma Resort

$10 per person put-in at American River Resort


Boys & Girls Club

group didn't go, they didn't respond to Arturo's calls

they moved trip date to August, then wanted to move to Sept,, then didn't return calls


Grant Union HS

along with Sacto ICO

one day on Gorge, late put-in, met group at 11, put-in at 1:30-2

took out 5-6

1 swimmer at Hospital Bar

Fun group

want to work with us again next year

one of the Sacto volunteers, Javier, trained with us before, may join up again

good river karma helping out ETC

their participant had a heart attack on river & died

not sure if others were injured, too

ICO guides didn't tell scary news to participants

ICO guides helped ETC with their gear

There are many lessons to learn here, things to consider - let's turn into a good learning experience

ICO guides came together, were flexible


ETC Incident

Chicken talked to Diane Pozlotsky, Davido


One man died, his wife & daughter saw him die

Experienced guide, new to ETC, went sideways at hole above Fowlers Rock

Right side of boat, including guide, went out for a swim

Broken arm was sprained wrist

They were able to call for helicopter because a kayaker had a cell phone

1st participant death for ETC

They have impeccable safety training

we all have to face that the river is powerful & dangerous


We need to make sure that on each of our trips, someone goes with a cell phone


Castlemont HS

Best target demographic for ICO

Great group leader, great teacher for this group

Big challenge: getting transportation, ICO subsidized van rental

Group was an hour late, because vans not ready + took longer to get to Coloma

2 swimmers, one at Bouncing Rock, got banged up, limped, complained of calf pain

Benefit to getting to Fowlers Rock after 3 pm to alleviate congestion on river

They want to do another trip next year

Group leader wants to create an outdoors club at Castlemont

Smallish trip, 12 kids, 2 chaperones, several kids were 18 or over

One boat had a hole in it, in the floor, left it behind

So now Mike @ PRS wants us to roll boats without folding in half 1st

The kids had a lot of apprehension, esp. the boys, esp. after the hole in the boat


Fundraiser updates - Mai

Thanks to volunteers for spreading the word

Currently have for Saturday: 22 paid guests, 7 that haven't yet paid; want at least 30

Sunday: 3 paid, 2 campers paid, 2 campers that haven't yet paid; want at least 10

Encourage people to sell the Middle Fork trip - the more folks we have, the better a deal we get

3 ICO folks on MF: Mai, Haya, interpreter

Bill & Mary will handle camping & food for dinner & b'fast

last year, at cost on MF = $59, with 12 people

Ansel & Arturo are interested

Chris is only ICO guide guiding for AO on SF

Next year we'll get a head start so we can recruit more guides to guide on the fundraiser


Committee Updates


Training: Margery & Bill made a survey for basic & high water training

Please go online & fill it out - it will be critical to affect training for next year

Where do our trainees fit in the paradigm?  We've committed to them, and to our alternates?

Ryan is concerned about river access before April, given the California state budget


Off River Jobs

1) Insurance reports due every quarter, Mel wants to retire


Ryan thinks ICO needs a Secretary, doing quarterly insurance reports

e.g. meeting minutes, keep track of permits, other things

fits well with a larger discussion of how we get things done in ICO, who does what


2) Bake sale coordinator position available

3) Co-chair needed

4) Basic training coordinator


Institutional Permits


looks like Sept 21 for open meeting to work out issues for IP


History: we pay $150 a year, been doing it for years

7 institutional groups right now, commercials have much more regulation than IGs

Changing regulations to 1) make $$, and 2) reaching carrying capacity of 300 boats/ hr

measured at Fowlers & Troublemaker


The river is close to reaching the carrying capacity, when draconian policies kick in, esp. for commercials


So, we likely will get river usage fees, river restrictions, guide compliance requirements

RMAC getting public feedback, last year in June, this year in August, and later this year Oct4

There will also be a breakout meeting among IGs later this month


Issues to work out:

1) what constitutes advertising?

2) How much for user fees?

3) restrictions for # users, boats launched, # trips launched


Need to be practical, not blame other IGs or commercials or County


Concerned that this IP will affect our ability to get non-commercial permit from other agencies

We need to be careful, e.g. BLM, Jeff Horn, wouldn't give us permits for SFA or Merced until we cancelled our fundraiser trips


The Forest Service knows & doesn't care that we're on the Kings, EFCarson

We don't know what Forest Service district manages the Trinity, Upper Sac


IP proposal allows for 3 fundraiser trips

Ryan thinks it best to stick with AO for fundraiser trips, to avoid jeopardizing our non-commercial status


BLM has stable leadership

Forest Service cycles managers around


IGs can come together & build for other issues

Right now, FOR not allowed to raft other rivers, except Kings, Upper Sac, maybe Trinity

excluded from Merced, EFCarson, Tuolumne


Great turnout at August RMAC meeting, 8-9 volunteers from ICO came


Discussion - Organizational Reflections (Harold)


informal discussions about what to do about this year's trainees led to bigger questions

lack of clarity over who's responsible, who gets to decide, for training and other issues, too

As ombudsman, H notices many struggles

1) overlapping areas of authority, not just training

2) no one's doing anything, no one has responsibility or authority


E.g. Selection of trainees, how they were notified of policies

Who gets to say how many people we take training?

Is it the BT coordinator? Training committee?  Chairs? Selection committee?


E.g. training season's coming

If we move BT, it will affect SWR, advanced training

Who decides how it works?

What happens to this year's trainees?


Caroline: steering committee trumps smaller committees that compose steering committee

Margery: steering committee makes the decisions of policy, but doesn't meet enough

Bill: if the same folks show up, then why do we need another meeting?

Chicken: most helpful to address problems rather than only talk about them.  Steering Committee meeting to discuss training needs in early Oct.?

Bill: Lines of authority meeting, public forum?


Harold wanted to use a tool, a matrix to ID tasks: RACI

Who's responsible, accountable, consulted, informed

Harold wants consensus to move forward, but not all members see the need for another meeting to discuss these issues.

Meeting second Wednesday of October for Harold Meeting, for those who want to come?